			    TRAVELLER Digest 426

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) TRAVELLER digest 425 by erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider)
  2) Announcing a traveller-like SF PBEM PRG by sma@kiel.netsurf.de (Stefan Matthias Aust)
  3) Re: Dave's Challenge 77 Editorial by sma@kiel.netsurf.de (Stefan Matthias Aust)
  4) Challenge 77 Editorial & Weapons by broussa@ConnectI.com (David C. Broussard)
  5) Re: TRAVELLER digest 425 by toad@ugcs.caltech.edu (Benjamin Lane)
  6) Peacemaker's effect on ships by E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK

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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 02:02:59 -0500
From: erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: TRAVELLER digest 425
Message-ID: <9509230702.AA15014@csdl.tamu.edu>


>PS. Why do you say that "old Japan was dominated by China"? Japan was
>the first (only?) Eastern nation to even begin to operate as a
>colonial power, when it fought and captured sections of China early
>this century. (Pressure from the West forced the Japanese to "accept
>the unacceptable" and relinquish its hold on certain areas, however -
>the Western nations wanted to be the only colonial powers, thank
>you!). I would have said that _China_ was dominated by Japan.

For centuries China culturally dominated Japan, in that Chinese
culture was the model on which the Japanese elite based their
behavior. Examples: the writing system, "elite" literature styles and
art styles in general, the Confucian social structure (but with
warriors replacing scholars as the supreme class), and Buddhism. 

I believe this was brought up to support a claim that the Consulate
would culturally dominate the Regency in similar ways, i.e., the
Consulate "way of doing things" would be considered the chief model to
emulate among the elite of the Regency.

-- 
Erich Schneider  erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu  http://bush.cs.tamu.edu/~erich

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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 19:37:31 +0100
From: sma@kiel.netsurf.de (Stefan Matthias Aust)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM, xboat@MPGN.COM
Subject: Announcing a traveller-like SF PBEM PRG
Message-ID: <m0swVyF-0001HHC@kiel.netsurf.de>

Hello!

Three weeks ago, I asked whether anybody here on this list would be
interested in a SF PBEM roleplaying game with a background similar to the
classic traveller universe. In the meantime, I decided to start this game
and hope you allow me to post this here a second time.

I'll play in my own universe, mainly on the world Jovoo were the characters
have to establish a new colony. Jovoo is located in the so called
border-(sub)sector (the former Tibu Riwek subsector) which was closed for
100 years because of a peace treaty between the Imperium and the Estadh of
Bezidhar. One hundered years ago the empire, that lasts for 986 years now,
nearly was defeated by the overwelming space forces of Bezidhar. But then
the Bezidhar retreated, offering peace. The Imperium accepted and a belt of
no-man's land was created, the Border Sector. 

Jovoo was setteled by the Imperials 301 during the Great Expanse. The new
settlers discovered that they weren't the first humans on Jovoo. Primitive
humans lived between the ruins of a strange city which "was built by the
gods." 836, Jovoo was attacked by Bezidhar. Three years later they destroyed
the colony and probably killed all settlers that didn't ran away after the
first attack. Imperial fleets reconquer Jovoo in the same year 839 but found
no survivors. 848 the Estadh destroyed the outpost on Jovoo again, advancing
further so that the Imperium gave up the world.

Now the Imperium wants to re-colonize the world. Empress Athia instructed
the duke Selrean of Riwek to organize the new settlement. He gave the order
to the new founded department for development of the Salmann Neue
Technologie AG mega corporation. The department is now looking for
management personal for the following divisions:
        - Command (coordination of settlement)
        - Scout (survey and exploration)
        - Security (assure the safety of the colony)
        - Production (farming and animal breeding)
        - Health (medical team)

They are also looking for voluntary settlers (for example citizen mayor,
science person). Payment depends on qualification, minimum will be ICr
4000/month. Settlers get a single bonus of ICr 1000 and aditioal Cr 4000 for
buying Saltec products (SCr).

If YOU are interested, I would be glad to get your reply. Although, there
might be a drawback for most of you, because I will refee most of the game
in (my native) German language. However, it's perfectly okay if you use
English to send your turns/descriptions and use this language to
communicate. I would love to have an international flair in this game :-)
You only have to be able to understand (basic) German. Unfortunately it's
too time consuming for me to support both languages and currently I've more
German speaking than English speaking players. (And you probably have
already noticed that my English isn't perfect) If there's a volunteer to do
the translation I would love to hear of.

If you think it's worth a try, please feel free to send me a short note.
bye
--
Stefan Matthias Aust // ...and the sun gets bloody, and the sun goes down


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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 19:37:34 +0100
From: sma@kiel.netsurf.de (Stefan Matthias Aust)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Dave's Challenge 77 Editorial
Message-ID: <m0swVyI-0001ITC@kiel.netsurf.de>

I would like to comment the editorial, too. Here it goes:

I think, I'm more a Traveller collector than a Traveller gamer, simply
because its more difficult to gather a group of SF fans then a group of
fantasy players. However, I always liked most of Traveller since I bought my
first rules book 10 years ago.

Original Traveller background was too large, Dave Nilsen said. Players got
lost in known space because every new book moved them into a new part of the
universe and made them to startover a new campaign, Dave was afraid. Peace
was boring, made characters to become criminals to have some rest of fun, he
told us. So GDW destroyed to peace, declared the Rebellion and the Final
War, to achieve that the same player actions are no longer crimial ones. Fine.

Original Traveller was a framework, Dave noticed. But GDW doesn't want to
provide a framework but tries to tell a great story, a storyline with a
thick red threat on that they want to tie all players. Well.

I always liked that framework idea. A framework contains concepts and basic
ideas, not ready-to-play stories. It gives you a broad range of
possibilities not just one adventure. Like in computer science technology
were a framework has more power than a single application (though it's more
difficult to use) only a wide framework is capable of supporting such a
large background as the Imperium was.  Now all players have to play inside
the RC if they want to profit from new publications. The spinward marches I
always understand as example for a generic frontier region.

This kind of "direction to only the right way" can also be found inside the
game, I think. The RC government with its two parties looks for me like the
US government and it has a similar understanding of democracy. A natural
decission for a game written by US citizen, perhaps. The RC looks more like
a dictatorship than the old Imperium. The RC takes the liberties to dictate
all other worlds its own political model, take by the right of the stronger
all technologies they needed and see all other planets ruled by TED (very
bad guys) to justify their own actions. I felt the Imperium more tolerant.

Dave wanted to show the world that it can be done. "Never say never" goes
the saying he wants to prove. And the virus-story proved it. Using this as
occasion GDW changed Traveller as they feel it would be needed. It's our
background and we do it on our own, someone of GDW said once on this mailing
list, if I remember correctly. Players are allowed to follow the story. But
they are not to allowed to really take part in the story, or actively change
it. Of course they don't have to follow but then, they will be on their own.

If the players know to much, I wouldn't be fun, Dave Nilsen pretents. But
knowing background or knowing the reasons behind the background are two
things. Any Cthulhu players probably knows that Great Cthuluh exists and
were it sleeps its unholy undead sleep. And every Cthulhu player known the
common races like deep ones or fungi from yoggoth. But only the referee
known their motives and actions in the current adventure. If a rules book
stats that Zhodani are the bad guys I think its clear that this of course
isn't the universal truth but only the seeing of the one who provided this
information (the Imperials). 

But if the referee doesn't know more than the players, he had to make good
guesses or use his imagination (once the true idea behind role playing, but
currently very dangerous if he wants to use the next source book, too :-))
which probably kicks him out of the story. So the referee will wait until he
knows the right direction and start only now. But wait, if players now read
these books, they again know too much. Moral: Best give no information at all.

Finally Dave told us (with many words) that history is full of bad jokes and
so are the books of GDW. Well. I would like a book with good jokes better.

bye
--
Stefan Matthias Aust // ...and the sun gets bloody, and the sun goes down


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 15:30:54 -0500
From: broussa@ConnectI.com (David C. Broussard)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Challenge 77 Editorial & Weapons
Message-ID: <9509232030.AA22796@ConnectI.com>

Re: Eamon Waters' Response to Dave's Challenge 77 Editorial

First of all let me state that I like the "new" format of GDW's line.  One
of the things that my players always wanted was the ability to REALLY effect
what was going on in the universe.  Now most of GDW's prior stuff was set
against the backdrop of the 11,000 world Imperium.  It was only later with
Arrival Vengance that the players were finally set up to be some of the
movers and shakers in the Imperium.  Now in the RC, in every adventure the
PCs change the universe.  My players esp like that format better.  The one
problem I have with it is that the RC is so young that most of the players I
play with have characters that are too old.  They also tend to be of rather
high rank which would make them commanders most of the time.

Now GDW intends for the players to be loyal RC Marines or some such, but
this is not always the way it works.  I have players who refuse to be in the
Military because they don't want to have to follow orders if they don't want to.

I appreciate the amount of detail given us for the worlds around the RC in
_Path of Tears_.  There are LOTS of adventure possibilities there,
unfortunately it is a static book.  Once the players investigate a planet,
the others are still in their fallow state waiting for the PCs to come and
do the initial recon.  

I do miss the ships and equipment.  I disagree with Dave in that all 5mm
Rifles are the same.  Witness the M-16, G-41, IW, AK-74, Etc.  Its one of
the things that made 2300AD such a great game (each person was able to pick
a different weapon).  It is a little plain to say that a person has a 5mm
ACR from Aubaine, and it operates the same as a 5mm from Oriflamme.  In fact
why would there be a RC standardization committee that creates the 7mm
modular weapon.  Look at the problems that NATO has standardizing its
weapons.  First it was the 7.62Nato, then the US develops the M-16, and
strongarms the rest in to adopting the new 5.56Nato cartridge.  Then the
Germans come along and develop a new 4.77mm caseless round that no-one else
wants...or look at the plethora of 9mm pistols on the market today, and
almost anyone can tell you why A is better than C.

Contrary to FF&S, put the same cartridge in two different weapons, with many
of the same stats, and it WILL fire differently.  Also almost every weapon
you come across has slightly varying weights, etc.  Now do they all perform
the same...sort of.  I can tell you that a Glock 17 9mm will last you longer
than almost any other on the market, and that one you can get for $99 will
probably jam on you the first time you REALLY need it.

So do we need weaponry, vehicles, ships, etc.  YES!!!! we do.  It gives us a
look see at what the race thinks like etc.  I mean I understand the Ithkulur
much better after seeing their weapons in RC Equipment Guide.

Anyway, what we need is a clearing house of designs for weapons, vehicles,
etc.  GMs could post them, and others could use them in their campaigns thus
giving their players more of a choice between just a Wheeled ATV and a
tracked ATV.  I mean when we go out to buy a car, do we just get a generic
car...No, and Traveller would be no different.

DCB
David C. Broussard (broussa@connecti.com)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions represented herein are the sole responsibility of
the proclaimer, and should not be interpreted as dogma, doctrine
philosophy, or anything else other than blabber.  However, if you
REALLY like it, then gimme a dollar!
-----------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 16:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: toad@ugcs.caltech.edu (Benjamin Lane)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 425
Message-ID: <199509232303.QAA09136@puree.ugcs.caltech.edu>

> -------------------------------------------
> 2.      ZHODANI AND THE CORE
> 
> To Alvin Plummer re digest 403:
> >(Anyone wants to hazzard a guess on what cute little surprise he left for the
> >Zhodani at the Galactic Core?)
> 
> The Sparklers, of course. SEE MT Journal #4. Grandfather is not a nice person.
Cool. But I don't have MT#4. Would you be willing to write a short explianation? I know something happened. but what is the story?


> 
> -------------------------------------------
> 3.      FIGHTERS AS MISSILE SCREENS
> 
Again, cool. A good reason to put fighters on Capital ships...
Although I would imagine they also have special point defence gunboats
built for precisely this purpose, as well as to protect against fighters.

> 
> -------------------------------------------
> 4.      THE CONSULATE AND THE REGENCY
> 
> Re digest 406:
> Alvin, I think that if handled right, the "Baddies from the Core" option
> could be quite effective in shifting Zho focus away from the Regency, at
> least long enough to give the Regency a bit of breathing space in which to
> expand and rebuild. According to TD #4, many Zho fleets were destroyed, and
> many of their psionic nobles went insane. If this option is used by GDW,
> it could leave a hole in Zho society that they would need time to fill.

just the fact that the fleets in question were a few hundred parsecs away in the Coreward direction would effectively remove them from the Frontier wars.
snip, snip.

> 2. The Regency has TL 16 and experimental TL 17. The Zhos have TL 14 and
> experimental TL 15. The Darrians (Regency allies) have the Star Trigger.
> This should help to equal out the balance of power.

True. Where can I find out more about the star trigger? 

snip, snip.

> the players ask you a hard question, you have to come up with something.
> (BTW, I have found that this list, in itself, helps in this regard. Many
> people - other than me as a sole DM - are also working on filling in the gaps.
> Their work becomes an invaluable resource.

I agree comletely. That's the main reason for having this list.

> 
> There have been a few starships in TNE that I have had a problem with, as
> they seem to have trouble operating in TNE, given its current rules.
> 
> (1) The Gazelle Class Close Escort. Problem - Can't refuel at Gas Giants with
> its tanks attached, as its CG covers it without them, and it is streamlined,
> not airframe. Does it dump tanks, refuel, rendezvous with the tanks, fill them,
> refuel, connect to the tanks and scoot. Sounds complicated even if no one's
> gunning for you. How about running the CG at 133.34%, risky, wouldn't want to
> be in the CG's atmosphere if the CG overheated and broke. In It's original
> role as a close escort to large naval ships, this is less of a problem, as 
> it can refuel off the large ships. Still, limiting even in the CT era

You are missing an important point - the Gazelle isn't landing. It can use 
maneuver drives to maintain a high velocty while skimming the atmosphere. That
of course assumes that the drop tanks are streamlined. Ok, so you could overload your CG, but why bother? Just dip into the atmosphere repeatedly at a low
entry angle, skip out again, and on the next orbit dip back in. all the while 
you can use your 5G maneuver drive to maintain a high velocity. As it says in 
FF&S, "all streamlined ships can hurtle through the atmosphere at high velocity"
 
> 
> (2) The Lab Ship. Must explore strange, new worlds but can't land. Can only
> refuel at A, B, or C starports, asteroids, or by launch (how many trips?!).
> Doesn't make sense even in CT era (should have kept the pinnace). 

True enough.

And now for a question of my own, that I've asked once before but might 
have been lost in the message screw-up last week.

Are there any black holes or neutron stars in Charted space? Have they 
been detailed, and if so, where can I read about them?

also, are there published sector data for Foreven sector and The Beyond?

Final question regarding meson weapons; I know they are part of traveller 
canon, but to be honest, I have yet to be convinced that they are allowable
with our knowledge of physics.. The mesons used are neutral, so they don't 
shed energy the way say, alpha particles or electrons do, but that doesn't
mean they will go through anything without resistence. neutrons are not 
charged, but the get absorbed readily in many materials, including water.
It's - as far as I know- due to the strong nuclear force, which in effect 
allows the nucleus to interact with the particles. The same woudl be true 
for mesons. 
Only neutrinos can go through most matter without interacting. 
 
have I missed something, or do I have to resort to "It's physics we haven't
discovered yet" when my players ask?
/ben
..

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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 00:52:26 EDT
From: E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Peacemaker's effect on ships
Message-ID: <00996DA0.7AF67EE0.1@v2.qub.ac.uk>


Hi, 

In my post in Trav Digest 424, I pointed out that the Peacemaker Virus could
make a significant difference to the ship complements in TNE starships. This
is because engineering, electronics and maintainance crew requirements are all
reduced by the computer multiplier number. This of course means trusting a
Peacemaker Virus - which in my calculations I did, being a trusting sort. So
trusting, I let them replace the MFD crewperson too. I found that the 
differences are most noticable on larger, low TL ships, as you would expect,
getting the highest drop in computer multiplier number. Also effected on
large ships are the number of command crew, whaen the other crew requirements 
have been whittled down. The breakdown of crew changes for starships in the
TNE rulebook and RCEG, where there is a change, follow:

Gazelle:	Loses 3 eng, 1 MFD, 1 command crew; complement 22 > 17.
		So, the ship doesn't need hot bunking, or can use the 
		space to put in a CG for 400tons, so it can refuel at
		Gas Giants and land on planets without jettisoning tanks.  

Patrol Cru.:	Loses 1 eng, 2 MFD, 1 command; complement 19 > 15.
		Less hot bunking.

SDB:		Loses 6 eng, 2 MFD, 1 maint, 1 command; complement 23 > 13.
		Either most crew get a stateroom to themselves, or you get
		more missle space. 

Fat Trader:	Loses 1 eng; complement 9 > 8. An extra passenger room. 

Donosev:	Loses 1 eng, 1 elect; complement 15 > 13. More supplies, or
		lab space.

Sub. Liner:	Loses 2 eng; complement 12 > 10. More passengers.

Broadsword:	Loses 2 eng, 2 MFD, 1 command; complement 72 > 67. Add more
		troops, but then you need the command crewperson lost.

Manta Fueler:	Loses 5 eng, 1 maint; complement 12 > 6. This crew loss 
		subtracts from the complement of the Clipppers carrying
		them.

Aurora Clipper:	Loses 15 eng, 3 MFD, 1 elect, 5 maint, 6 flight, 3 command;
		compliment 85 > 52. More troops, supplies - or drop some
		small modules, better performance.

Maggart Clip.:	Loses 21 eng, 3 MFD, 1 elect, 8 maint, 6 flight, 5 command;
		compliment 112 > 68. More troops, supplies, or you can drop
		an entire 100ton quarters module - maybe replace it with
		a missile module.

Victrix Cla.:	Loses 6 eng, 1 elect, 2 MFD, 1 maint, 1 command; compliment
		26 > 15. Add more fuel, you could pack about 154kl into the
    		space of the 5.5 small staterooms freed - 6 extra G-hours,
		and the Vixtrix sloops needs all they can get.

Cobra Courier:	Loses 2 eng; compliment 12 > 10. Much more comfy.
(Challenge 75)

Lauritson Cla.:	Loses 3 eng; 2 MFD, 1 elect, 1 command; compliment 22 > 15.
(Challenge 76)  No hot bunking, or add a 400ton CG, as suggested for the
		Broadsword class above, of which this is a variant of.


Of course, you can store extra supplies in any vacated stateroom, or extra fuel,
or put in some ELB's. I'd draw the line at greater conversion of staterooms,
as if the Peacemaker Virus turns on you, you'll want to convert them back...
if you get home.

Affect on the future of the RC? More ships for less men, ships with a bit
more of an edge than they used to have.

Another point - what effect would having a Peacemaker in charge of a TL 12 
factory's computer have - will the goods be of higher precision? Finer make?
Will it be able to make a TL 13 or 14 product? Or assemble the tools to do so?
Put it in charge of a research project - will the TL leap become easier?
Perhaps Aubaine is going to increase it's TL sooner than we think.

Eamon Watters. 

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End of TRAVELLER Digest 426
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